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	<title>Comments on: Klonsky broadside does Piton study wrong</title>
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		<title>By: Thinking.....</title>
		<link>http://blog.ednewscolorado.org/2008/02/21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-384</link>
		<dc:creator>Thinking.....</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.headfirstcolorado.org/blog/index.php/2008-02-21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/#comment-384</guid>
		<description>Angela Engel gave me permission to post the following. Lots of propaganda coming from Secretary Spelling who, by the way, is not an educator. Go to: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zSJexw0Gvs

Thanks, Thinking

----------------------
Dear Education Week,

I&#039;ve been following your articles for over two years now. On several occasions I have found your columnists&#039; coverage of complex and important educational issues to be shallow and often innacurate. I&#039;ve come to believe that Education Week is promoting a political agenda, rather than an effective educational system and children who are prepared as democratic citizens, economic contributors, and developed human beings. Todays article, &quot;Since NCLB Law, Test Scores on Rise&quot;, illustrates this position. All independent and professional research organizations have confirmed the opposite of what this article has claimed. Test scores have stagnated or decreased and overall achievement has declined since the implementation of NCLB. What has risen are drop-out rates and juvenile incarcerations, which none of your articles have conveyed. Review of the Center on Education and Policy quickly disclosed that John Jennings, the CEO and his staffers were instrumental in the passage of NCLB. It makes sense then that their &quot;conclusions&quot; would support NCLB and counter all other reseach studies challenging the law. The fact that Ed Week published this information without acknowledging the Center&#039;s role in the authorization of NCLB, and without mention of any other studies, which all refute the Center on Education Policy, demonstrates journalistic fraudulence. It is the responsibility of media organizations and editors to do their homework. Our fragile democracy demands media sources dedicated to getting the whole story, accurately representing the truth, and willing to challenge and ask hard questions. Please remove me from your subscriber list. I do not believe Education Week to be a credible news source.

Appreciatively,
Angela Engel
angela_engel@msn.com
8131 S. Marion Ct.
Centennial CO 80122
(303)908-1954</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Angela Engel gave me permission to post the following. Lots of propaganda coming from Secretary Spelling who, by the way, is not an educator. Go to: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zSJexw0Gvs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zSJexw0Gvs</a></p>
<p>Thanks, Thinking</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
Dear Education Week,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been following your articles for over two years now. On several occasions I have found your columnists&#8217; coverage of complex and important educational issues to be shallow and often innacurate. I&#8217;ve come to believe that Education Week is promoting a political agenda, rather than an effective educational system and children who are prepared as democratic citizens, economic contributors, and developed human beings. Todays article, &#8220;Since NCLB Law, Test Scores on Rise&#8221;, illustrates this position. All independent and professional research organizations have confirmed the opposite of what this article has claimed. Test scores have stagnated or decreased and overall achievement has declined since the implementation of NCLB. What has risen are drop-out rates and juvenile incarcerations, which none of your articles have conveyed. Review of the Center on Education and Policy quickly disclosed that John Jennings, the CEO and his staffers were instrumental in the passage of NCLB. It makes sense then that their &#8220;conclusions&#8221; would support NCLB and counter all other reseach studies challenging the law. The fact that Ed Week published this information without acknowledging the Center&#8217;s role in the authorization of NCLB, and without mention of any other studies, which all refute the Center on Education Policy, demonstrates journalistic fraudulence. It is the responsibility of media organizations and editors to do their homework. Our fragile democracy demands media sources dedicated to getting the whole story, accurately representing the truth, and willing to challenge and ask hard questions. Please remove me from your subscriber list. I do not believe Education Week to be a credible news source.</p>
<p>Appreciatively,<br />
Angela Engel<br />
<a href="mailto:angela_engel@msn.com">angela_engel@msn.com</a><br />
8131 S. Marion Ct.<br />
Centennial CO 80122<br />
(303)908-1954</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Klonsky</title>
		<link>http://blog.ednewscolorado.org/2008/02/21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-383</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Klonsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.headfirstcolorado.org/blog/index.php/2008-02-21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/#comment-383</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Don&#039;t think I ever said that Piton was &quot;all about charters.&quot; As you know, I have helped in the creation of many charter schools nationwide. It was the Piton study I was looking at and my comment about resources was not about Piton&#039;s donating funds but the study&#039;s recommendations.

It sounds like you agree with the study&#039;s premises and reliance on the use of standardized tests as its only measure of school success (&quot;until we come up with other measures that are objective and reliable&quot;). BTW, standardized test scores are neither objective nor reliable. They may have some uses, but good schools don&#039;t rely on them for much since they mainly measure students&#039; test taking ability.

It&#039;s ironic that when KIPP and other EMO-run charter schools are shown lagging behind even poor neighborhood schools on test scores, they suddenly become critics of STCs as the measure of school success (see story about KIPP in Gary, Indiana today on the Smallschools listserv at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smallschools/message/7347).

Next time you are in Chicago, I will enjoy talking over a beer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t think I ever said that Piton was &#8220;all about charters.&#8221; As you know, I have helped in the creation of many charter schools nationwide. It was the Piton study I was looking at and my comment about resources was not about Piton&#8217;s donating funds but the study&#8217;s recommendations.</p>
<p>It sounds like you agree with the study&#8217;s premises and reliance on the use of standardized tests as its only measure of school success (&#8220;until we come up with other measures that are objective and reliable&#8221;). BTW, standardized test scores are neither objective nor reliable. They may have some uses, but good schools don&#8217;t rely on them for much since they mainly measure students&#8217; test taking ability.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s ironic that when KIPP and other EMO-run charter schools are shown lagging behind even poor neighborhood schools on test scores, they suddenly become critics of STCs as the measure of school success (see story about KIPP in Gary, Indiana today on the Smallschools listserv at <a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smallschools/message/7347)" rel="nofollow">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smallschools/message/7347)</a>.</p>
<p>Next time you are in Chicago, I will enjoy talking over a beer.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Gottlieb</title>
		<link>http://blog.ednewscolorado.org/2008/02/21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-382</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Gottlieb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.headfirstcolorado.org/blog/index.php/2008-02-21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/#comment-382</guid>
		<description>Mike --

OK, the orthodoxy comment was a cheap shot, for which I apologize. But having worked at Piton for 10 years, until last summer, I believe you grossly misrepresent the foundation&#039;s stance on public school reform. Yes, Piton supports charters, but it also (as Van points out) has pumped millions of dollars into neighborhood public schools, during my years there, and during Van&#039;s tenure. So to claim that Piton is all about charters and &quot;Forget about any resources to support and transform neighborhood. Thats just not in the foundations game plan,&quot; as you wrote, is patently unfair and inaccurate. During my years at Piton, I dedicated much of my time and energy to pushing hard for socio-economic school integration. I still believe, ardently, that if we, as a society, really cared about low-income kids, we would not continue to isolate them in second-rate schools. I&#039;ve never gained a lot of traction on this, with Michael Bennet or any of his predecessors. Just as an aside, I believe my commitment to integration came from the same place as Debbie Meier&#039;s, since I grew up in Chicago, several doors down from the Meiers, and played with her kids. She once told me that when she moved to Central Park East, the image she had in mind for the school was &quot;the kind of community we had on 50th Street.&quot;

No, I do not believe that standardized test score should be the only measure of a school. Until we come up with other measures that are objective and reliable, though, scores are the best we&#039;ve got. I hate the way scores are used at present, but accountability is a good thing. As someone who advocates for low-income kids, I&#039;m sure you agree that the light is the best disinfectant. Ultimately, won&#039;t shedding light on how poorly served these kids are by their schools lead to improvement? I certainly hope so.

As to your other question: it&#039;s pretty hard to argue against KIPP being the only good school anywhere in west Denver. There are some other promising schools developing in NW Denver, most notably Brown Elementary, which is becoming a Primary Years IB school -- for a predominantly low-income population. But the area of southwest and central-west Denver that houses KIPP is pretty much a wasteland.

I think we&#039;d have fun debating this over beers some time. Let me know if you&#039;re coming to Denver. As I write this, I&#039;m in Chicago, but just for the weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike &#8211;</p>
<p>OK, the orthodoxy comment was a cheap shot, for which I apologize. But having worked at Piton for 10 years, until last summer, I believe you grossly misrepresent the foundation&#8217;s stance on public school reform. Yes, Piton supports charters, but it also (as Van points out) has pumped millions of dollars into neighborhood public schools, during my years there, and during Van&#8217;s tenure. So to claim that Piton is all about charters and &#8220;Forget about any resources to support and transform neighborhood. Thats just not in the foundations game plan,&#8221; as you wrote, is patently unfair and inaccurate. During my years at Piton, I dedicated much of my time and energy to pushing hard for socio-economic school integration. I still believe, ardently, that if we, as a society, really cared about low-income kids, we would not continue to isolate them in second-rate schools. I&#8217;ve never gained a lot of traction on this, with Michael Bennet or any of his predecessors. Just as an aside, I believe my commitment to integration came from the same place as Debbie Meier&#8217;s, since I grew up in Chicago, several doors down from the Meiers, and played with her kids. She once told me that when she moved to Central Park East, the image she had in mind for the school was &#8220;the kind of community we had on 50th Street.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, I do not believe that standardized test score should be the only measure of a school. Until we come up with other measures that are objective and reliable, though, scores are the best we&#8217;ve got. I hate the way scores are used at present, but accountability is a good thing. As someone who advocates for low-income kids, I&#8217;m sure you agree that the light is the best disinfectant. Ultimately, won&#8217;t shedding light on how poorly served these kids are by their schools lead to improvement? I certainly hope so.</p>
<p>As to your other question: it&#8217;s pretty hard to argue against KIPP being the only good school anywhere in west Denver. There are some other promising schools developing in NW Denver, most notably Brown Elementary, which is becoming a Primary Years IB school &#8212; for a predominantly low-income population. But the area of southwest and central-west Denver that houses KIPP is pretty much a wasteland.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;d have fun debating this over beers some time. Let me know if you&#8217;re coming to Denver. As I write this, I&#8217;m in Chicago, but just for the weekend.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Klonsky</title>
		<link>http://blog.ednewscolorado.org/2008/02/21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/comment-page-1/#comment-381</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Klonsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.headfirstcolorado.org/blog/index.php/2008-02-21/klonsky-broadside-does-piton-study-wrong/#comment-381</guid>
		<description>Alan,
As you can see from my blog roll, there is no &quot;orthodoxy&quot; test. Some on the list would string me up if they could catch me. It&#039;s more a matter of personal interest. Now you&#039;ve got me interested. Plus your &quot;passionate defender&quot; compliment is appreciated (I think).

But why are my comments &quot;a screed&quot; against Piton? My response to the RMN storyand the Piton study was mainly about 1) the use of standardized test scores as the only measurement of &quot;quality schools&quot; and 2) holding up KIPP as the only example of quality school in inner-city Denver. I didn&#039;t really say much about Piton or even mention them by name. But if it&#039;s circle the wagons time for you and Van--ok.

What&#039;s your view of using standardized tests as the only measurement of quality schools? Do you think it&#039;s OK that the Piton study accepts that criterion? And of course related to that--do you think it&#039;s fair to describe KIPP as the &quot;only&quot; good school in &quot;the broad swath of Denver west of Interstate 25?&quot;

And if that is the only criteria you are using, do you really need a study to tell you in which part of town you are going to find nearly all of the &quot;quality schools.&quot;

Let me know what you think about these embedded study questions and I promise to put your comments and my further response on my blog, orthodoxy or no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,<br />
As you can see from my blog roll, there is no &#8220;orthodoxy&#8221; test. Some on the list would string me up if they could catch me. It&#8217;s more a matter of personal interest. Now you&#8217;ve got me interested. Plus your &#8220;passionate defender&#8221; compliment is appreciated (I think).</p>
<p>But why are my comments &#8220;a screed&#8221; against Piton? My response to the RMN storyand the Piton study was mainly about 1) the use of standardized test scores as the only measurement of &#8220;quality schools&#8221; and 2) holding up KIPP as the only example of quality school in inner-city Denver. I didn&#8217;t really say much about Piton or even mention them by name. But if it&#8217;s circle the wagons time for you and Van&#8211;ok.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your view of using standardized tests as the only measurement of quality schools? Do you think it&#8217;s OK that the Piton study accepts that criterion? And of course related to that&#8211;do you think it&#8217;s fair to describe KIPP as the &#8220;only&#8221; good school in &#8220;the broad swath of Denver west of Interstate 25?&#8221;</p>
<p>And if that is the only criteria you are using, do you really need a study to tell you in which part of town you are going to find nearly all of the &#8220;quality schools.&#8221;</p>
<p>Let me know what you think about these embedded study questions and I promise to put your comments and my further response on my blog, orthodoxy or no.</p>
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